November 1


Journal entries

Conversation with Mr. Stewart
Mr. Stewart is a distinguished Baltimore doctor. He said to me: "Doctors have some political influence in America. In the small places they have the confidence of the people and are often sent to the legislatures and to Congress. Sometimes ecclesiastics too are sent there. But that is a very rare event. The general tendency is to keep the clergy in the Church and separate from the State."

"What do you think about the state of religion in the United States? I admit that I am inclined to see a profound indifference beneath all religious beliefs. I imagine that the greater part of the enlightened classes have many doubts about dogma, but that they are careful not to show them; for they feel that positive religion is a moral and political institution which it is important to preserve."

"There is some exaggeration in that picture. The vast majority in the United States, even among some enlightened classes, but especially among the people, is truly believing, and holds firmly to the view that there is no guarantee for the social behavior of a man who is not Christian. This view is so firmly rooted that it gives rise to an intolerance of which you can form no idea. It gives the clergy great indirect influence. So if a clergyman known for his piety gives it as his opinion that a man is unbelieving, that man's career will almost certainly be broken.

"Another example: a doctor is clever, but he has no faith in the Christian religion. However, thanks to his ability, he gets a good practice. No sooner is he introduced into a house than a zealous Christian, a clergyman or another, comes and seeks out the head of the family and says to him: "Be careful of that man. Perhaps he will cure your children, but he will seduce your daughters or your wife; he is an unbeliever. But here, on the other hand, is Mr. So-and-so who is as good a doctor as the other and who is also religious. Trust me and entrust the health of your family to him." Such advice is almost always followed. So one cannot exactly say that the clergy are a civil power with us; but it is at least certain that religion exercises immense power outside the church, and even has a prodigious influence on the affairs of the world."

"Does not such a state of affairs make for many hypocrites?"

"Yes, but above all it stops people from talking about it. Public opinion does with us what the Inquisition could never do. I have met, I have known a lot of young people who, having received a scientific education, thought they had discovered that the Christian religion was not true; carried away by the ardor of youth they have started loudly proclaiming this opinion; they have grown indignant against the intolerance of zealous Christians, and have been open in their hostility towards them. What then!

"Some have been forced to leave the country or to vegetate miserably there. Others, feeling the struggle unequal, have been constrained to an external religious conformity, or have at least kept quiet. The number who have thus been suppressed by public opinion is very considerable. Anti-Christian books are never published here, or at least that is very rare. However irreligion is beginning to penetrate into some newspapers. There is a newspaper of that sort at Boston, one in New York, one in Jersey, and another in Cincinnati. But the progress of that attitude is very slow. However several of our great men have shared it. One does not know what view Washington held about Christianity; he never expounded it. But Jefferson, Franklin and John Adams were decidedly deists. On the other hand one must recognize that a great many of our able men have been and are still firm believers. But I imagine that their number is diminishing."

(Tocqueville, p. 69)

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November 2 - Interview with the vice-president of St. Mary's College

Journal entry

Conversation with Mr. Cranche

Mr. Cranche is a Catholic priest and vice-president of the college of St. Mary at Baltimore. Almost the whole of the present generation has passed through this college. It was founded forty years ago by Mr. Dubourg, a French priest. Since then there has been a considerable increase.

Q. How are the Catholics in the United States governed?
A. In the United States there is a metropolitan archbishop who resides at Baltimore, and thirteen suffragan bishops. When a bishopric becomes vacant, each of the remaining bishops sends a list of three candidates to the archbishop. It is from among those candidates that the Pope chooses.

Q. Is that procedure a law or a custom?
A. A custom. In theory the Pope's choice is free, but he always does select one of the bishops' candidates.

Q. How are the lower members of the clergy appointed?
A. All the governmental power is concentrated on the episcopate. In Europe the parish priests can only lose their positions in case of bad conduct. America is regarded as a pagan country where there are no resident clergy, but only missionaries. The bishops choose these missionaries, appoint them and call them back at their pleasure.

Q. So you have nothing resembling the old French officialities [P footnote: an ecclesiastical judge under the Ancien Regime] here?
A. No, we have no sort of ecclesiastical tribunal.

Q. Is Catholicism spreading in the United States?
A. Yes, prodigiously.

Q. But is it spreading through conversions, and have you an idea of the number of converts?
A. We have not got an idea of the number of converts; but we know that there are a great many.

Q. I see there are many Protestant children with you. Do they sometimes become Catholic?
Mr. Cranche, with some animation answered, "No."
"At least it is a rare event," he added. "We are careful never to say anything to them against the religion of their parents. Two children who talked among themselves about points of controversy with the Protestants would be punished. It is true however that we make them attend our religious services. But their parents know that before they send them to us."

"But it seems to me that, though you are careful not to talk to your pupils about the Catholic religion, they cannot live like this in a completely Catholic atmosphere without it producing a strong impression on them in favor of your doctrines?"

"The impression is strong enough to take away all their prejudices against Catholicism; not strong enough to convert them. What is more sure of effect is the marriage of a Protestant with a Catholic girl. Such marriages are forbidden in Europe; we favor them here. We have noticed that when the mother is Catholic, the children always and the husband often become Catholics. At Baltimore there are a great number of women's organizations concerned with education. It is not rare to find young girls becoming Catholics."

"Establishments like yours are multiplying from what I have heard in America?"
"This is the first one; it has 180 pupils. There is another in Maryland which is run on the same plan by the Jesuits, and there is a third in the district of Columbia."

"What is the opinion of the Catholics in America about the power of the Pope and its independence of general councils?"

"It would be very difficult to say. In America as in Europe there are Gallicans and ultramontanes. The latter have the Jesuits as leaders. But up till now these questions are only asked within the circle of those who study theology; the masses have never come into it, and it would be impossible to say what is the view of the majority."

"Are American Catholics zealous?"
"Yes, I think America is called to become the hearth of Catholicism. It is spreading freely without the help of the civil power, without rousing hatred, simply by the strength of its doctrine and in perfect independence of the State."

"Do the people subscribe liberally to church expenses?"
"The clergy are not rich, but have what they need."

"Do you think it is better to meet expenses in this way rather than by enforced contributions?"
"Yes, certainly, in America."

***

[Dinner with Mr. James Carroll - see following entry]

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November 3 - Interview with James Carroll

Journal entry written by Tocqueville based on yesterday's interview with James Carroll

I dined yesterday with Mr. James Carroll. Among several other guests were the Governor of Maryland, Mr. Howard, son of Colonel Howard, the chief judge of the criminal court, and Mr. Finley, most of these gentlemen belonged to the old families of Maryland. There was talk about the political constitution of this State and all agreed that they had gone too far in widening the franchise. As a result, these gentlemen said, it is really the least enlightened part of the nation that rules the other. Then I took Mr. Finley aside and had the following conversation with him.

"I am sorry," he said to me, "that you could not come to Baltimore at the beginning of last month. The members of our legislature were elected then, and the sight of our elections would have provided lively interest for you."

"Could you not," I answered, "describe them to me?"

"All the better," replied Mr. Finley, "since I played a part. The Republicans, or anti-Jackson party, chose me as their candidate. My opponent happened to be one of my best friends. We went together two days before the election to Washington Square where a platform had been erected for speakers at the town meeting. I got up first and began to explain to the audience - there were at least 10,000 - the mistakes which General Jackson and the present administration had committed since they came to power, whereas my opponent made the case for the government. When I say we did that, we tried to do so; for the boos of the opposing party continually drowned the speaker's voice. Several men came to fisticuffs.

There were several broken limbs and finally everyone went to bed. The next day my adversary and I went off to tour the different parts of the country. We travelled in the same carriage, ate at the same table, lodged at the same inns and then appeared as adversaries on the same hustings."

"But do you see nothing to fear in such disorderly and tumultuous assemblies"

"For my part I think the hustings system detestable. But it does not present the dangers you imagine. Our people is accustomed to that type of election. They know just how far they can go, and how much time they can devote to this sort of ancient saturnalia. The evening of an election at which people have fought with sticks is as peaceful at Baltimore as Ash Wednesday at Rome. Besides the very excess of democracy partly saves us from the dangers of democracy. All public appointments are annual. The party that loses this year, hopes to succeed the next. So why should it resort to illegal means?

"You argue as a man who has never seen a people stirred by real and profound political passions. Everything with you up to now has been on the surface. There have been no large substantial interests at risk."

"That may be true; note that I only speak about us and about the present time."

"No doubt with you as in New England it is the municipal authorities who summon the town-meeting."

"It ought to be so; but our custom is different. In Maryland any individual, by announcing its date and object in a newspaper, can call a meeting together. At election time I have known innkeepers announce such meetings near their inn to attract customers; and the plan succeeded perfectly."

"Is it true that you impose no property qualification for the vote?"
"Not the smallest; I have seen elections swayed by the paupers from the almshouse, whom one of the candidates had had fetched."

"Do you approve of such a state of affairs?"
"No. In thus pressing democracy to the utmost limits, we have in actual fact handed over control of society to those who have no interest in stability since they possess nothing and have but little understanding. Also we have built our social order on ever moving ground. With us every year not only do public officials change, but principles, maxims of government and parties succeed to power at an incredible rate. Social standing and wealth are ever-lastingly caught up in this all-embracing change. There is no continuity in undertakings."

"But it is yourselves, the members of the upper classes, who have made the existing laws. You were the masters of society fifty years ago."
"Yes certainly, but each party, to gain power, chose to flatter the people, and bid for its support by granting new privileges. Thus by degrees the most aristocratic State in the Union has become the most democratic."

(Tocqueville, p. 74)

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November 4 - Visit to an alms-house

Journal entry about their visit to the alms-house

Mr. Howard, a very distinguished engineer of this country, told me today that he had been sent (I do not know whether by the government or by a company) to look into the possibility of joining the Great Lakes to the Mississippi by a canal.

This was the result of his researches: from Lake Michigan to the point where the Illinois River is navigable for steamboats is a distance of 95 miles. The level of the Illinois river is 150 feet below that of Lake Michigan. To get the water to flow from Lake Michigan on that side, it is only necessary to cut through a hill 25 miles long, whose greatest height above the level of Michigan is only 13 feet. ...

Today, 4th of November, we saw in an Alms-house a Negro whose madness is extraordinary; there is at Baltimore a slave-trader who, it seems, is much feared by the black population. The Negro of whom I speak imagines that this man sticks close to him day and night and snatches away bits of his flesh. When we came into his cell, he was lying on the floor, rolled up in the blanket which was his only clothing. His eyes rolled in their orbits and his face expressed both terror and fury. From time too time he threw off his blanket, and raised himself on his hands shouting: "Get out, get out, don't come near me."

It was a terrible sight. This man is one of the most beautiful Negroes I have ever seen, and he is in the prime of life.

(Tocqueville, p. 159)

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Journal entry about the relationship between the people and the press

Mr. Cruse, a very talented man and editor of one of the principal newspapers in Baltimore, told me today: With us there is no power external to the people; whatever it wants, one must submit. The militia itself is the people, and is of no avail when it shares or excuses the passions of the majority.

We [meaning Cruse & co.] saw a terrible instance of this twenty years ago. It was the time of the war against England, a war which was very popular in the South. A journalist ventured violently to attack war feeling. The people assembled, broke his presses, and attacked the house where he and his friends (belonging to the first families in the town) had shut themselves up. An attempt was made to call out the militia; they refused to march against the rioters, and did not answer the call.

The municipal authorities could only save the journalist and his friends by sending them to prison. The people did not feel itself satisfied. That night it assembled and marched against the prison. Again one tried to assemble the militia, but without being able to do so. The prison was taken by storm; one of the prisoners was killed on the spot and the rest left for dead; one wanted to make prosecutions, but the juries acquitted the offenders.

(Tocqueville, p. 160)

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Journal entry about education

Education
In Maryland and, I think, throughout the South there was no law about public education four or five years ago. the people refused to be educated, so as not to have to pay the tax for the schools. It is only since that time that efforts have begun to be made. But I do not think that up to the present there is a general law in Maryland about the matter; ignorance there is still very great.

(Tocqueville, p. 228)

***

In Maryland the free Negroes pay the same school-tax as the whites, but they cannot send their children there.

***

Mr. Latrobe said to me today: I am very much afraid that the in-coming Legislature may pass unjust and oppressive laws against the blacks. People want to make it intolerable for them to remain in Maryland. One must not hide it from oneself; the white population and the black population are in a state of war. They will never mix. One of the two must give way to the other.

(Tocqueville, p. 234)

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November 5 - Visit with Charles Carroll

Journal entries written by Tocqueville

This evening we paid a visit to Charles Carroll.

Charles Carroll is the last survivor of the signatories of the Declaration of Independence. He is descended from a very ancient English family. He owns the most huge domain in America now. The estate on which he lives comprises 13,000 acres and 300 Negro slaves. He has married his grand-daughter to the Duke of Wellesley [sic]. He is a Catholic. Charles Carroll is ninety-five years old. He holds himself very erect, has no infirmity, his memory is rather uncertain.

Nonetheless he still talks very well as an informed and likeable man. He was educated in France. He welcomed us with great kindness and friendliness. Conversation turned on the great time of his life, that is the Revolution. He reminded us with very natural pride that he had signed the Declaration of Independence, and that by doing so he risked, together with his life, the most considerable fortune that there was in America. I ventured to ask him whether from the beginning of the quarrel the colonies had had the idea of separating from Great Britain.

"No," Charles Carroll answered me, "we were strongly attached in our hearts to the Motherland. But she forced us by degrees to cut ourselves off with her." He added with much warmth: "No, doubtless we did not believe that things would go so far. Even after we signed the Declaration of Independence, we thought that Great Britain, frightened by that, would seek to get closer to us, and that we could be good friends. But the English pressed their point of view, and we ours."

We talked of the government of the United States. Charles Carroll showed that he regretted the old aristocratic institutions of Maryland. The general tone and content of his conversation breathed the spirit of the English aristocracy, mingled sometimes in a peculiar way with the habits of the democratic government under which he lived and the glorious memories of the American Revolution.

He ended by saying to us: "A mere Democracy is but a mob. The English form of government," he said to us, "is the only one suitable for you; if we tolerate ours, that is because every year we can push our innovators out West."

The whole way of life and turn of mind of Charles Carroll make him just like a European gentlemen. Probably the great Southern landowners at the time of the Revolution were very much after this fashion. This race of men is disappearing now after having provided America with her greatest men. With them the tradition of cultivated manners is lost; the people is becoming enlightened, attainments spread, and a middling ability becomes common. The striking talents, the great characters, are rare. Society is less brilliant and more prosperous.

These various effects of the progress of civilization and enlightenment, which are only hinted at in Europe, appear in the clear light of day in America. From what first cause do they derive? I do not yet see clearly.

(Tocqueville, p. 77)

***

Mr. James Carroll said to us today: "One must not exaggerate the disadvantages of democracy with us. No doubt in a lot of details, in a great number of particular cases, the people lack common sense, but by and large nevertheless the machine works and the State prospers. No doubt universal suffrage presents dangers, but it has this advantage that with it there is no hostility of one class against the others: there is general well-being spread through the nation.

I think that whatsoever be the disadvantages of democracy, when it can function, it does even more good than harm. It encourages throughout the body social a lively activity which no other government would know how to create. However I am very far from thinking that it can function everywhere. I think that, as we are placed in unique circumstances, our experience proves nothing."

"What do the wealthy classes of society think of the present state of affairs?"

"The upper classes see very clearly the blunders and passions of the people; they think that in a lot of matters they would guide society more successfully than the people. But the recognize all the same that, considering everything, the State prospers; they submit to the present order, recognizing the food in its ultimate result, thought quite conscious of the faults in the details."

Note: Mr. James Carroll has a cool, just mind in which, I think, one can have confidence.

(Tocqueville, p. 79)

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