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Conversation with Mr. Latrobe, a very distinguished lawyer from Baltimore
He said to us: "I think the constitution of Maryland is the most democratic in America. No property
qualification is demanded for the electors. Any man who is a citizen of the United States and has been living for a year
in the Republic is an elector."
"Do you not find," I said, "that this universal suffrage has disadvantages?"
"There are some," said Mr. Latrobe. "The choices are not always good. It has been noticed that we have fewer
able men in our Legislature than the Virginians have in theirs.
"But," I answered, "since your Legislature is so democratic, is it not true then that Maryland is the place in the
United States where the spirit of aristocracy is most in evidence?"
Mr. Latrobe answered: "Our outward habits have indeed kept an aristocratic cast which is found neither in our
laws nor in our political practice. So there is more luxury here than anywhere else: in the streets you see four-horse
carriages, jackets, something like liveries; the members of different families are distinguished by names of estates."
"Formerly your laws, like your manners, were aristocratic?"
"Yes, Maryland was founded by English nobles, and moreover the first emigrants professed the Catholic
religion which itself is favorable to aristocracy. So they divided the territory into greta estates; but America does not
at all favor the existence of great landed fortunes, and the landowners were never able to get large incomes from their
lands. Up to the Revolution however Maryland had the appearance of an English county; birth was as much valued there
as on the other side of the Atlantic; all the power was in the hands of the great families."
"What changed this state of affairs?"
"The law of inheritance. With equal shares, fortunes were quickly divided up. Some families, that of Charles
Carroll for instance, having only one representative during several generations, kept their fortunes, but in general the
great estates have been divided into a thousand fragments. With the small landowners and commercial industry,
democracy was born. You see what progress it has made."
"But how have the members of the great families put up with this change? What is their position over against
the people, and what do the people think of them?"
"The people has not, as you seem to think, any hostility against the members of the old families. It shows no
discrimination against them in appointments to all the offices. On their side the members of the old families do not show
any hostility against the present order. This state of affairs is due to two circumstances; when war broke out with Great
Britain, the great families of Maryland zealously supported the cause of independence.
"They shared the passion of the people and led them on the field of battle. After the war of Independence the
political question dividing people was concerned with the Constitution. The nation was split between the Federalists
who wanted to give the Union a very strong central power, and the Democrats or Republicans who wanted to keep
almost complete independence for the States. The latter party, which won in the end, was the most popular. Now it
happened that the Maryland aristocrats, from love of power and a wish to keep their local importance, almost all
supported it. So these were two great occasions on which they went with the people and won rights for them.
"I was speaking just now of Federalists and Republicans and told you that in the end the Republicans carried
off the victory. That is to say that they came to power in the end. For the rest, once in charge of the government, they
managed things in almost all respects in the same way as their adversaries would have done. They allowed a central
power, a standing army, a navy. ... [dots in manuscript] Oppositions never can govern with the principles that have
brought them to power. Now, to put the matter truthfully, there are no parties in the United States; everything turns on
questions of personalities. There are those who have got power and those who want to have it; the "ins" and "outs." "
"What class is most usually elected by the people?"
"Lawyers. The United States are ruled by lawyers. It is they who hold almost all the offices. The President is
a military man, but look at all his ministry; there is not one minister who is not a lawyer. The lawyers here have even
more preponderance than in the rest of the Union, because here it is the custom before an election for the candidates to
address the people. We often see the eloquence of one of them carry an election by surprise against an opponent whose
real merit should have decided the matter."
"Is there still slavery in Maryland?"
"Yes. But we are making great efforts to get rid of it. The law allows the export of slaves and does not allow
their import. Cultivating wheat we can very easily do without the blacks. It is perhaps even an economy."
"Is enfranchisement allowed?"
"Yes, but we often find that enfranchisement brings great evil in its train, and that the freed Negro finds himself
more unhappy and unable to help himself than the slave. One odd thing is that west of the Chesapeake, the Negro
population is increasing faster than the white, whereas to the east of that bay the opposite is true. I think the reason is
that the west is divided into great estates which have no attraction for the hard working, free population.
"Baltimore, which now has a population of 80,000, did not have thirty houses at the time of the Revolution.
What then has made the city grow so fast?"
"First as a result of our Revolution; then the ruin of San Domingo which sent many French families as refugees
to us and gave us the victualling of the colony, and finally the wars of the French Revolution in Europe. England was
at war with the whole continent and ruled the seas; we became Europe's manufacturer."
"Is it true that there are great differences between Americans of the North and those of the South?"
"Yes, at Baltimore we think we can recognize a Yankee in the street, and even an inhabitant of New York or
of Philadelphia."
"But what are the principle traits that distinguish the North from the South?"
"I would express the difference like this: what distinguishes the North is the spirit of enterprise; what
distinguishes the South is the spirit of chivalry. The manners of a Southerner are frank and open; he is excitable,
even irritable, and very ticklish on a point of honor. The New Englander is cold, calculating and patient. As long as you
are staying with a Southerner, you are made welcome, and he shares all the pleasures of his house with you. The
Northerner, when he has received you, begins to think whether he can do business with you."
(Having painted this spirited portrait, Mr. Latrobe seemed to be afraid that he had been talking too frankly to
us, and he added several details to diminish the effect.)
"But your present legislation, your law of inheritance among other things, should change the look of your
society?"
"Yes, we used to have a race of landowners living on their estates. In general those were the most distinguished
people in the country. They had received an excellent education, and had the manners and standards of the English upper
classes. We still have a certain number of these "gentleman farmers;" but the law of inheritance and democracy are
killing them. In two or three generations they will have disappeared."
"Do you not regret that it should be so?"
"Yes, from some points of view. In general that class was a seedbed of distinguished people for the legislature
and the army. They were our best statesmen and our finest characters. All the great men of the Revolution came, in the
South, from that class. But nonetheless I am inclined to think that, all things considered, the new order is better. Our
upper classes now are less remarkable, but the people is more enlightened; there are fewer distinguished men, but more
general happiness. In a word we are daily getting more like New England.
"Now New England, in spite of all I was saying to you about it, is well ahead of
us in everything to do with the economy of society. I think that the whole American continent must model itself one day
on New England. What hastens this tendency is the perpetual flow of people from the North to the South. Their will to
grow rich and their spirit of enterprise are continually driving them among us. Little by little all trade and control over
society is falling into their hands."
"Do you think you could do without slaves in Maryland?"
"Yes, I am convinced of it. Slavery is in general an expensive way of farming, and it is more so with certain
crops. Thus wheat-farming requires many laborers, but only twice in the year, at sowing time and at harvest. Slaves are
useful at those two seasons. For the rest of the year they must be fed and kept without, one may say, employing them.
Besides, on a farm with slaves there are always a multitude of women and children who must be fed without being
employed. So generally speaking slavery is worth nothing in wheat growing country. And that applies to the greater part
of Maryland. In the South where the crop from the plantations is very large, one can employ slaves."
"But if sugar and coffee are more profitable crops than corn, and if slave labor for agriculture is more expensive
than free, it surely follows that the Southerners can keep their slaves, but it also follows that they would get a better
return from their lands if they cultivated them themselves or employed free labor?"
"No doubt, but in the South the white man cannot, without getting ill or dying, do what the black does easily.
Besides there are certain crops that are raised much more economically by slaves than by free workers. Tobacco for
instance Tobacco needs continual attention; one can employ women and children in cultivating it. In a country where
labor is as expensive as it is in America, it would be difficult to grow tobacco without slaves: it is a crop admirably
suited for slave labor. Tobacco is the only Southern crop grown in Maryland. People will end by giving up growing it
in proportion as slavery disappears.
"It would be better to lose that source of income than to keep it. All that I have been telling you just now is not
only my own opinion, it is an expression of public opinion. Over the last fifteen years there has been a complete
revolution in people's attitude to this matter. Fifteen years ago one was not allowed to say that slavery could be abolished
in Maryland; now no one disputes that."
"Do you not think that the law of inheritance should have a great influence on the existence of slavery?"
"Yes, immense. The division of properties multiplies small fortunes and quickly creates a class of white
laborers who start competing with the slaves. Everywhere in Maryland where properties have been divided up, slavery
has disappeared and the white population has developed
extraordinarily."
"In Maryland do you have a code for the blacks?"
"No. The penal code applies to both races. There are however some offenses which can only be committed by
a black. A black for instance, even if free, cannot carry arms. A black slave cannot buy or sell on his own account
without the written permission of his master. Free blacks cannot come together for meetings."
"Do enfranchised blacks have political rights?"
"None. The law gives them them in Pennsylvania, but in practice they do not use them any more than with
us."
"Is it true that public education in Maryland is infinitely less advanced than in New England?"
"Yes. We have only just set out on the road along which the Northerners have been going for two hundred
years. We find the chief obstacle in the sentiments of the people themselves. A curious thing has long happened and still
happens with us: the enlightened classes of the population feel the need for public education and work ceaselessly to
spread it. But the people, who still does not see the need to give their money to attain this object, does not re-elect to
office those who thus work for their welfare in spite of themselves."
"Do you realize that what you are saying is a very strong argument against the principle of the sovereignty of
the people?"
"No, at least not in my view. The people is often blind and falls into incredible mistakes. But I have always
found that it ends up by understanding its own interests. And then it does more than the strongest power could do. So
in public education it has long been impossible for us to do anything; but now public opinion begins to turn to our side.
The impulse has been given and nothing will now stop it."
"How do the Catholics in America prosper?"
"They are increasing extraordinarily and are pursuing a very skilful policy. The Catholics are the only
congregation that is never divided about doctrine. They march united like a single man. For the last twenty years they
have very skillfully diverted all their efforts towards education. They have established seminaries and colleges. The best
educational institutions in Maryland are Catholic. They have even colleges in other States. These colleges are full of
Protestants.
"There is perhaps no young man in Maryland who has received a good education who has not been brought
up by the Catholics. Although they are very careful not to speak of their beliefs to their pupils, you realize that they
always exercise a certain influence. They have also very cleverly directed their chief attention to the education of
women. They think that where the mother is Catholic, the children will almost always become such. Generally their
bishops in America are able men."
"What are the doctrines of the American Catholics about the question of Church government?"
"They recognize the Pope's right to appoint the bishops, and the bishops' right to appoint the parish priests. As
to matters of faith they think that only an Ecumenical Council presided over by the Pope has a right to pronounce."
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