In the 1840s there was a French gentleman who

traveled the United States and he wrote several important books. One was called `Democracy in America.' I am talking about Alexis de Tocqueville , and he said it in so many ways so beautifully. It was this volunteerism that really made America work. He talked about religion.

The gentleman from North Carolina [Mr. Jones] talked about Ernest Istook's bill that I am cosponsoring as well. De Tocqueville said religion is the first instrument of democracy. Yet somehow we have driven religion and faith from the public square. The only welfare system was through the churches and faith institutions, and now we have said they cannot participate.

I do believe that we have to reform the welfare system and help the President keep his campaign promise. It is much more about human potential and the waste that the Washington-based welfare system has created.

Mr. KINGSTON. One of the things about welfare, in preparation for Father's Day I was doing some research and found out that police departments unfortunately use as an indicator of crime in the neighborhood, not the drug use and not the location or the geography but how many fathers live at home. Ninety-two percent of the children on welfare do not have a father at home. Those are the kids that do drop out of school, do have teenage pregnancy situations, do have violent crime and so forth.

The fact was unbelievable, but it is that breakup of the family unit. Why is the dad not at home? Because we have a stupid, insane government policy that says if he stays at home, they get kicked out of the housing project because their income will make them ineligible. Does that make any sense?

Would it not make sense to have a housing project where we have stable mom-and-dad relationships, where we can have some model citizens that other folks who live in the housing project can look up to? Does common sense not dictate that we do that?

Instead, we have a Federal Government that says, `No, dad, you are out of here. If you stay here, she is going to lose her benefits,' and she cannot go out and find a job and get the benefits and the child care and the health insurance, and she needs that. I do not blame her.

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Mr. JONES. The points have been well made. What we are trying to do is to give a program to the States

with a financial support because we believe the States throughout America, the 50 States, as has been proven in Michigan and Wisconsin, that the people of the State know what will help those that are dependent on welfare.

The gentleman from Georgia [Mr. Kingston] is right. Most of the people on welfare would like to have an opportunity to get off of welfare, but we have a system that punishes them, whether it be that they live in public housing and they go out and get a job and start making a little more money, and they raise the rent and they cannot get caught up. It is the same way with those that want to work.

The point is that we have got to develop a system. I think the States can do a better job--that has been proven--than the Federal Government of saying what works in my country, Pitt County, North Carolina. The State of North Carolina knows better than some bureaucrat that we made reference to 10 minutes ago telling North Carolina or Georgia or Minnesota what works better in their State. Let the people decide. Let the people help people. That is what it is all about.

Mr. GUTKNECHT. If the gentleman would yield, I have had 75 town meetings since I was elected. I did not realize that until we counted.

Mr. KINGSTON. That is extreme.

Mr. GUTKNECHT. That is extreme, but every one of them, I feel better. Certainly we have a few people that disagree with us, and that is part of a democracy as well.

But there is so much common sense among the American people, and they understand exactly what was just said.